Curse

Silmor · Jul 11, 2005, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Nobody is making an argument that breaks are never excuseable, so Lelani, Algren, it would be really practical if you two would stop claiming that this was said just so you can pull the more extreme examples like children crying at night out of the closet to disprove a point nobody made.

The argument made was that something like food or toilet breaks are avoidable, and the advice was given that if they do happen to suddenly overcome you, you just explain it to your team and if you will be gone too long you leave the group. You don't just say 'brb' and leave them guessing to what's going on.

Principa Discordia · Jul 11, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lelani

I'm not trying to start a personal war with you Principa, quite the opposite. The post wasn't even directed at you, but to Aniewiel, hence the reason I quoted him first.

It was a rather blatant attempt at singling out my argument, again. Honestly, Lelani, my patience is wearing thin. Please keep it up, I dare you.

Like I said, until you go back and read my actual argument, and not this silly twisted version you have conjured up to use against me (straw man fallacy, anyone?) please shut your mouth.

Aniewiel · Jul 11, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lelani

I'm not trying to start a personal war with you Principa, quite the opposite. The post wasn't even directed at you, but to Aniewiel, hence the reason I quoted him first.

It's actually HER not him but that's just nitpicky.

Your comment about Principa begrudging bathroom breaks is what he too umbrage at, I'd guess.

Thanas · Jul 11, 2005, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Yes in fact I did and it makes no sense. You cant be the most disorganised person you know and be able to organise yourself so well. It makes no sense! And please constantly asking me if I've read your post is quite tiresome. The process of organising your time makes you organised, thus you cannot be disorganised. The two are mutually exclusive i.e opposites. However this is going back and forth and as a moderator you should know where to draw the line, more so than I. So any further posts regarding this I shall ignore. It is not in any way productive.

Principa Discordia · Jul 11, 2005, 04:51 PM // 16:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

Perhaps, Principa, this thread has reached the end of its usefulness...if there ever was any?

Maybe it's time to lock it and throw away the key! Show us that you are the monster you are rumored to be! MWAHAHAHA!

On the contrary.

I'm known as one of the nicer ones, it's EnDinG you have to watch out for.

There's no reason to lock it, not yet anyway. It's stayed civil, and the fallacies from both sides are being kept to a minimum. It will get out of hand, though, as it always does, and that's when it will be locked.

Algren Cole · Jul 11, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aniewiel

You and I have had this "my child, your child" discussion in another thread. MY child is more important than ANYTHING in this world. I knew, after rereading my last post, that someone would say something like you did.

I am not making ANY comments about a child's need for their parent, emergencies, unplanned events that come up and such. I am talking about the avoidable things, for Pete's sake.

and I agree with you...and anyone that has stated similar opinions...I simply choose not to care one way or the other. Guild Wars IS a waste of time(it's supposed to be)..whether I waste it advancing my character or waste it sitting around in a mission laughing and joking with the other people waiting...I really couldn't care less. To me, and that's not to say it is or should be to others, Guild Wars(and all video games for that matter) is a means to escape life for however long I can....nothing more. I gain no sense of achievement from winning or being the highest level or being able to solo this or that....I simply enjoy not having to worry about anything else for however long I play....if someone has to leave or go AFK mid mission...I really couldn't care any less about it.

Aniewiel · Jul 11, 2005, 04:53 PM // 16:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

On the contrary.

I'm known as one of the nicer ones, it's EnDinG you have to watch out for.

There's no reason to lock it, not yet anyway. It's stayed civil, and the fallacies from both sides are being kept to a minimum. It will get out of hand, though, as it always does, and that's when it will be locked.

Darn.

*gets out popcorn anyhow and takes a sideline seat*

Principa Discordia · Jul 11, 2005, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanas

Yes in fact I did and it makes no sense. You cant be the most disorganised person you know and be able to organise yourself so well. It makes no sense! And please constantly asking me if I've read your post is quite tiresome. The process of organising your time makes you organised, thus you cannot be disorganised. The two are mutually exclusive i.e opposites. However this is going back and forth and as a moderator you should know where to draw the line, more so than I. So any further posts regarding this I shall ignore. It is not in any way productive.

I'll explain this one last time, because you're still completely missing the argument with your bull straw man games and I'm tired of it.

Yes, I am a disorganised person. No, the things I'm talking about take no effort and the actual required organisational skill to do them is completely minimal as it should come naturally to most people. I was playing on the fact that if my lacking organisational skills can arrange something as menial as game time, meal time, and potty breaks then anybody can do it.

Now, as I've explained fully, any further straw man attacks from you will be killed on sight. *Poster mode off, moderator mode on.* Feel free to cry about being picked on.

Edit: I just hilighted the exact part you're misunderstanding. The activities I am talking about do not require someone to be "so good" at organisation. That's the entire point.

Talesin Darkbriar · Jul 11, 2005, 04:55 PM // 16:55

This topic has strayed a few light years off the OP.

The OP joins a PUG, and then in short order has to eat (because food can't go cold!) take a leak (because those big gulps are huge!) or otherwise watch tv, chat online with his friends, and basically give a full 10% of his attention to the game and task at hand.

And then he is amazed that people say to him, "good riddance."
It's called consideration - and the OP really needs to understand what that means, because its obvious he is clueless.

If I know you and have adventured with you before, go ahead - grab that popcorn, take a bio break, whatever; because I know you're coming back; we have a repoire you see, some trust has been established.

If I don't know you from Adam, show some friggin common courtesy and either play - or don't. Most people do freeload these days, sorry to say, and the rest of us won't tolerate it. No matter how desperately your food must not get cold!

It really is that simple.

Talesin

Algren Cole · Jul 11, 2005, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

.* Feel free to cry about being picked on.

roflmao

sorry for the wasted post...but I felt the need to express my emotional feelings toward this post specifically

Thanas · Jul 11, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuKen

I'm not even going to discuss your attack on Discordia, because it has nothing to do with whether or not his arguments have merit. You are attacking the person and not the points which is always the wrong way to approach a debate. Furthermore, he's not even the only person arguing his point, so discrediting him means nothing.

OK perhaps saying that Discordia takes the game too seriously was unfair. It just appears that way. I apologise for that. However the rest of what I said was attacking his argument and not him. I don't wish to cause offence. But if an argument is full of contridiction how can it have merit? However as I have said thats enough.

Principa Discordia · Jul 11, 2005, 04:57 PM // 16:57

Talesin has tried a valiant effort to get this thread back on track, it would be in everyone's best interest to follow his example.

Thanas · Jul 11, 2005, 04:58 PM // 16:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

Talesin has tried a valiant effort to get this thread back on track, it would be in everyone's best interest to follow his example.

I agree

asdar · Jul 11, 2005, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Sheesh, if your daughter needs you then of course you go. I have two kids myself, BUT if it's not your daughter then be courteous.

Anywhere in this thread have you seen someone suggest you should let your daughter bleed out on the floor while you're typing?

What a totally and completely irrelevent argument to apply to this thread about showing common courtesy toward other real people.

It has nothing whatsoever to do with GW and everything to do with freeloaders.

You just don't have to look someone in the eye when you're rude and inconsiderate while playing a computer game.

Algren Cole · Jul 11, 2005, 05:00 PM // 17:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talesin Darkbriar

This topic has strayed a few light years off the OP.

The OP joins a PUG, and then in short order has to eat (because food can't go cold!) take a leak (because those big gulps are huge!) or otherwise watch tv, chat online with his friends, and basically give a full 10% of his attention to the game and task at hand.

And then he is amazed that people say to him, "good riddance."
It's called consideration - and the OP really needs to understand what that means, because its obvious he is clueless.

If I know you and have adventured with you before, go ahead - grab that popcorn, take a bio break, whatever; because I know you're coming back; we have a repoire you see, some trust has been established.

If I don't know you from Adam, show some friggin common courtesy and either play - or don't. Most people do freeload these days, sorry to say, and the rest of us won't tolerate it. No matter how desperately your food must not get cold!

It really is that simple.

Talesin

admittedly I did not read every single post...nor do I have a strong opinion for or against it...however it did appear that the original poster was merely pointing out the extremities some people will go through to "nerf" that "free-loader"...My original evaluation of this thread was not that it was a whining thread..but merely a thread pointing out how innately asinine people can be.

Quote:

Sheesh, if your daughter needs you then of course you go. I have two kids myself, BUT if it's not your daughter then be courteous.

Anywhere in this thread have you seen someone suggest you should let your daughter bleed out on the floor while you're typing?

And how exactly do you know that's why I went AFK?? How do you know that I went AFK for something dire and not for something trite?....you don't...you can't. You think I went AFK for whatever reason...either way it's your perception of a situation you are removed from. I assume anyone that goes AFK mid-mission has gone for a reason more important than playing Guild Wars....otherwise they would stay and play...that's all I need to know to not care whether or not they come back.

Principa Discordia · Jul 11, 2005, 05:03 PM // 17:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

admittedly I did not read every single post...nor do I have a strong opinion for or against it...however it did appear that the original poster was merely pointing out the extremities some people will go through to "nerf" that "free-loader"...My original evaluation of this thread was not that it was a whining thread..but merely a thread pointing out how innately asinine people can be.

The thing is that so many people go AFK without stating a reason, you can't tell them from those people who go AFK and stay AFK to get experience points and gold without even contributing to the team or to the mission.

This has become so common that people these days see "BRB-" or "AFK-" and think "Oh Lord, not again. Are they actually coming back this time or not?"

Diomedes · Jul 11, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

If I don't know you from Adam, show some friggin common courtesy and either play - or don't. Most people do freeload these days, sorry to say, and the rest of us won't tolerate it. No matter how desperately your food must not get cold!

See, I think this is a good point. If everyone can agree to not tolerate it, it will stop. People only freeload because they're gambling that you won't go back to the town to ditch them. If people can start demonstrating that they will ditch them then the free loading will stop. Of course this has to be a community effort and the chances of that are slim.

I guess the second method would be to try and openly threaten people joining your group, "if you freeload we will return to town and kick you." However this will probably just invite griefing as people will now purposely go afk just to tick off the guy who was making threats.

I don't see a good way around this problem unless anet finally gives a vote kick system or that amazing thread about spitting the instance gets implemented.

-Diomedes

Principa Discordia · Jul 11, 2005, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

And how exactly do you know that's why I went AFK?? How do you know that I went AFK for something dire and not for something trite?....you don't...you can't. You think I went AFK for whatever reason...either way it's your perception of a situation you are removed from. I assume anyone that goes AFK mid-mission has gone for a reason more important than playing Guild Wars....otherwise they would stay and play...that's all I need to know to not care whether or not they come back.

We'd know why you went AFK because, hopefully, you'd say "I'm sorry to leave the mission so soon, guys, but XREALLIFEPROBLEMHEREX."

Edit: Actually logging out instead of reaping rewards while being AFK is a nice start, too.

Algren Cole · Jul 11, 2005, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Principa Discordia

We'd know why you went AFK because, hopefully, you'd say "I'm sorry to leave the mission so soon, guys, but XREALLIFEPROBLEMHEREX."

but I already stated that I wouldn't....to me the members I am partying with don't matter the minute my real life interupts the game. Is it selfish...absolutely it is. But my real life is far more important than a game, as I would hope all of yours are. I wouldn't leave my computer during a mission or quest for any reason other than something very very important...but you won't know this because I won't have the time to tell you....so on your end I'm a freeloader(not that this happens often but it does from time to time)....on my end I am a person very sympathetic of your need for me to finish the mission...however I lack the will, the time, the luxury or the need to care once something important in my real life interupts my play.....it's all in your perception of a situation you aren't involved in....which is the very reason I don't hold anyone accountable for leaving mid-mission. I simply assume it was more important to them than playing the game.

EDIT My daughter finds her way into the drawer that contains the kitchen knives......am I going to take the time to log out of Guild Wars?

Principa Discordia · Jul 11, 2005, 05:12 PM // 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Algren Cole

but I already stated that I wouldn't....to me the members I am partying with don't matter the minute my real life interupts the game. Is it selfish...absolutely it is. But my real life is far more important than a game, as I would hope all of yours are. I wouldn't leave my computer during a mission or quest for any reason other than something very very important...but you won't know this because I won't have the time to tell you....so on your end I'm a freeloader(not that this happens often but it does from time to time)....on my end I am a person very sympathetic of your need for me to finish the mission...however I lack the will, the time, the luxury or the need to care once something important in my real life interupts my play.....it's all in your perception of a situation you aren't involved in....which is the very reason I don't hold anyone accountable for leaving mid-mission. I simply assume it was more important to them than playing the game.

EDIT My daughter finds her way into the drawer that contains the kitchen knives......am I going to take the time to log out of Guild Wars?

And how often, exactly, does something so critically and harmfully important come up that makes you have to leap out of your seat immediately and idle? Besides, when it's something like that, fine, no explanation is required, but if it's something so simple as grabbing a bite to eat, your team would rather know about it.